Talk:Choline bitartrate: Difference between revisions

(10 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)

Line 1:

==DL-choline bitartrate==

Choline is often sold as a supplement without any CAS provided

“DL-Choline Bitartrate should not be used in pharma or food applications although the price is normally more attractive. Studies have that shown the DL-form has nefrotoxic effects (1). In Europe, according to the CODEX and European Union, only L-Choline Bitartrate is allowed because it is mentioned in DAB and in the USP monograph. The DL form does not comply with these monographs. Moreover, according to the FDA, L-Choline Bitartrate is considered GRAS affirmed (21CFR182.8250_2010) but not the DL-form.” – http://www.geelawsonnutritional.com/news/gee-lawson-news/42-what-you-are-buying-might-not-be-the-right-source-of-choline.html

“Urolithiasis in rats consuming a dl bitartrate form of choline in a purified diet.” – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16158911 — Urolithiasis = Kidney stone disease

~~'''Characteristics'''~~

{{ping|Clarity}} Can you please confirm my findings and add some text about this to the page? --[[User:David Hedlund|David Hedlund]] ([[User talk:David Hedlund|talk]]) 23:43, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

~~DL-choline bitartrate~~

:{{ping|David Hedlund}} This is not a credible or verifiable source. It actually appears to be a marketing ploy to promote that vendor's supply over others. The neurotoxicity claim is totally unsupported by the citation they provide. Pseudoscience is not allowed here. [[User:Clarity|Clarity]] ([[User talk:Clarity|talk]]) 23:57, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

* Smell: ?

* Taste: ?

L-choline ~~bitartrate~~

::{{ping|Clarity}} What about "“Urolithiasis in rats consuming a dl bitartrate form of choline in a purified diet.” – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16158911 — Urolithiasis = Kidney stone disease"?

* Smell: ?

::{{ping|Clarity}} The reason why I'm worried is because I've supplemented with a product just labeled "Choline bitartrate". Don't you othink kidney stone disease is supported by https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16158911 ? --[[User:David Hedlund|David Hedlund]] ([[User talk:David Hedlund|talk]]) 00:17, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

* Taste: ?

:::{{ping|David Hedlund}} This is what consumer watch agencies are for. We are not a consumer watch agency. Unless something any one vendor does is noteworthy enough to make the news at a major news outlet, it does not meet the requirements for notability on this site. As for the kidney stone point, well, a single study in mice is not a strong enough piece of evidence to make a claim about its effects in humans. If you can find a human clinical study reporting kidney stones as a potential effect, then it can be added in. [[User:Clarity|Clarity]] ([[User talk:Clarity|talk]]) 00:24, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

== Let's move it to choline ==

I know this is weird as we are a place about taking stuff and nobody sells the free base, but this article is just too slated towards the free base in its data to do otherwise. I mean:

* The whole infobox, from the image to the names (including systematic), is for the base.

* The dosage label comes from supplement labels, which is the salt amount converted with a mass fraction into amount of the base.

* Research is generally about the nutrient, not any particular salt form.

(Shrug.) --[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|talk]]) 09:14, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==DL-choline bitartrate==
+Choline is often sold as a supplement without any CAS provided
 “DL-Choline Bitartrate should not be used in pharma or food applications although the price is normally more attractive. Studies have that shown the DL-form has nefrotoxic effects (1). In Europe, according to the CODEX and European Union, only L-Choline Bitartrate is allowed because it is mentioned in DAB and in the USP monograph. The DL form does not comply with these monographs. Moreover, according to the FDA, L-Choline Bitartrate is considered GRAS affirmed (21CFR182.8250_2010) but not the DL-form.” – http://www.geelawsonnutritional.com/news/gee-lawson-news/42-what-you-are-buying-might-not-be-the-right-source-of-choline.html
 “Urolithiasis in rats consuming a dl bitartrate form of choline in a purified diet.” – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16158911 — Urolithiasis = Kidney stone disease
-'''Characteristics'''
+{{ping|Clarity}}
+{{ping|Clarity}} Can you please confirm my findings and add some text about this to the page? --[[User:David Hedlund|David Hedlund]] ([[User talk:David Hedlund|talk]]) 23:43, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
-DL-choline bitartrate
+:{{ping|David Hedlund}} This is not a credible or verifiable source. It actually appears to be a marketing ploy to promote that vendor's supply over others. The neurotoxicity claim is totally unsupported by the citation they provide. Pseudoscience is not allowed here. [[User:Clarity|Clarity]] ([[User talk:Clarity|talk]]) 23:57, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
-* Smell: ?
-* Taste: ?
-L-choline bitartrate
+::{{ping|Clarity}} What about "“Urolithiasis in rats consuming a dl bitartrate form of choline in a purified diet.” – https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16158911 — Urolithiasis = Kidney stone disease"?
-* Smell: ?
+::{{ping|Clarity}} The reason why I'm worried is because I've supplemented with a product just labeled "Choline bitartrate". Don't you othink kidney stone disease is supported by https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16158911 ? --[[User:David Hedlund|David Hedlund]] ([[User talk:David Hedlund|talk]]) 00:17, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
-* Taste: ?
-{{ping|Clarity}}
+:::{{ping|David Hedlund}} This is what consumer watch agencies are for. We are not a consumer watch agency. Unless something any one vendor does is noteworthy enough to make the news at a major news outlet, it does not meet the requirements for notability on this site. As for the kidney stone point, well, a single study in mice is not a strong enough piece of evidence to make a claim about its effects in humans. If you can find a human clinical study reporting kidney stones as a potential effect, then it can be added in. [[User:Clarity|Clarity]] ([[User talk:Clarity|talk]]) 00:24, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
+== Let's move it to choline ==
+I know this is weird as we are a place about taking stuff and nobody sells the free base, but this article is just too slated towards the free base in its data to do otherwise. I mean:
+* The whole infobox, from the image to the names (including systematic), is for the base.
+* The dosage label comes from supplement labels, which is the salt amount converted with a mass fraction into amount of the base.
+* Research is generally about the nutrient, not any particular salt form.
+(Shrug.) --[[User:Artoria2e5|Artoria2e5]] ([[User talk:Artoria2e5|talk]]) 09:14, 15 September 2022 (UTC)